Faith & Reason Ministries

Hovind/Callahan Debate, Dec-5-04

Before the Debate (click here for more pictures)

Genesis: History or Myth? was the topic when well-known creationist Dr. Kent Hovind (Creation Science Evangelism,, with over 90 debates to his credit, took on theistic evolutionist John D. Callahan, president of Faith & Reason Ministries ( Callahan accepted Hovind's evolution offer in an open letter: $250,000 Evolution Challenge Accepted! Dr. Hovind responded to this letter during his radio show 8-26-04, and he also comments on biology and astronomy issues, politics, ministry, and other personalities in evolution and creationism.

The Debate took place at Faith Baptist Church and Schools (, 7644 Farralone Avenue, Canoga Park, CA 91304, on Sunday December 5, 2004 from 3:30 to 5p. The staffs of both Faith Baptist and Creation Science Evangelism were very helpful and pleasant, specifically Dr. Roland Rasmussen, Sr. (pastor), Tim Rasmussen (co-pastor), Roland Rasmussen, Jr. (cameras), Charlie Misseijer (moderator), Gil Machado (Fox News, cameras), Brent Henman (self, cameras), Arthur K. (sound), Jeff Schroeder (CSE), Jonathan Sampson (CSE), "DJ" (CSE), Kent Andrew (CSE), and of course, Dr. Kent Hovind (CSE).

In a series of card questions from the audience, Hovind took the position that the Bible is inerrant and scientifically accurate, contrary to view of public education and the scientific establishment. Callahan contended that the Bible should be viewed as an historic work and weighed against accepted science (the Big Bang and Darwinian biological evolution). Both Hovind and Callahan argued from a scientific and philosophical perspective.

Hovind stated that star formation has not been observed and violates the known laws of physics. Callahan countered that star formation is possible and has been observed with space-based infrared and optical telescopes. Further, Callahan pointed out that it takes at least 1 million years for a star to explode (supernova, see The Most Massive Stars). Although both Hovind and Callahan recognized the vastness of the universe, Hovind denied the possibility of aliens and Callahan said they probably exist.

Hovind discredited the fossil record and radiometric dating, in contrast to Callahan's emphasis on their great importance. Both Hovind and Callahan agreed that dogs have descended from wolves over the last several thousand years. However, Hovind asserted that a dog is still a dog. Callahan, on the other hand, maintained that the great variety of dogs (species and breeds) follows biological evolution. Callahan also alleged that the races of man is an example of microevolution, while Hovind believes the races are most likely explained Biblically via the story of the Tower of Babel.

Hovind said symbiotic relationships refute evolution. (How could things possibly evolve together?!) Callahan mentioned that tusk-less elephants are evolving because hunters do not shoot them (no ivory). In other words there is a symbiotic, evolutionary relationship between man and elephants (and dogs and HIV, etc.). Hovind also supported the idea that the 2nd law of thermodynamics prevents evolution. Callahan said it is a law of physics that does not prevent evolution or increases in complexity, but Callahan also stated entropy will increase and life will die, as stars burn out.

Hovind said Hitler used evolution to justify his actions. Callahan replied that Hitler is not evolution just as the Inquisition is not Christianity and that Hitler's misuse of evolution doesn't mean evolution is false. Hovind made the analogy of the scientific establishment with the USSR. Callahan retorted that this is by no means the USSR and the scientific validity of evolution has been consistently upheld by the courts (with rare exceptions).

Hovind and Callahan affirmed the roles of God, His goodness, Jesus as Lord and Savior, Satan, and man. There was a strong disagreement as to whether Jesus took the Creation Story literally (see What Jesus Said About the Creation Story and the Flood). Hovind declared that God would not use the evil process of evolution (suffering and death of animals and man) to create the world. Callahan acknowledged such suffering but asserted that the perversion of the universe was caused by the fall of Satan and his angels before the Big Bang, 13.7 billion years ago (see Chaos).

The entire debate is available at popular video sites, such as YouTube and others. Links to video are given below.

YouTube 2:22 minutes Video excerpts from introductory statements Contains extensive discussion forum
-=*=- -=*=- -=*=-
YouTube Video 94:11 minutes:
Entire Debate See report above and excerpts below
YouTube Video 9:37 minutes:
Introductory statements (debate order: 1) Stance. Personal facts. Predictions (Hovind). Genesis model and Satan's fall (Callahan).
YouTube Video 4:01 minutes:
Saved: can an evolutionist be a Christian? (debate order: 2) See Right With God and The Deity of Jesus. God's goodness and mercy.
YouTube Video 7:36 minutes:
Apes and evolution (debate order:3) Did African forests retreat and some apes evolve to walk upright on land? See A Lesson in Life Upon the Earth, Hominid Species Timeline and links page.
YouTube Video 6:39 minutes:
24 hour day: literal? (debate order: 4) Creation sequence. Evolution. Do stars form? Stars explode.
YouTube Video 4:13 minutes:
Scientific method, scientists, and evolutionary theory (debate order: 5) See references: "BELIEFS", Many current scientists reject evolution and Science. The USSR.
YouTube Video 8:13 minutes:
Races and evolution (debate order:6) See A Lesson in Life Upon the Earth. Dogs. Evidence, education, society and the courts. The USSR. Star formation and supernovae.
YouTube Video 3:35 minutes:
Zoo: can we communicate with animals? (debate order: 7) See Animal Intelligence and Suffering. Animals and Eden. Did Satan's sin, not Adam's, result in suffering and perversion of universe?
YouTube Video 8:22 minutes:
Adam: real or mythical? (debate order: 8, end of 1st half) Eden realistic? See The First Saved Man on Earth and What Jesus Said About the Creation Story and the Flood. Miracles. Born Again.
YouTube Video 8:37 minutes:
Bible belief: how do you know? (debate order: 9, start of 2nd half) Faith and reason. See Is the Bible Perfect? and reference Bible History. Apocrypha not officially removed until 1885. Hitler.
YouTube Video 4:19 minutes:
Death and the fall (debate order: 10) Eden realistic? Death by Adams's or Satan's sin? See Who Are God and Satan, Really? and Death, Sex, and Evolution (naturalistic explanation). The Bible. Hitler.
YouTube Video 6:04 minutes:
Aliens: what about extraterrestrials? (debate order: 11) See Here We Are: A Comment on Extraterrestrials and A Lesson in Astronomy ("billions and billions"). Evolution and science.
YouTube Video 4:13 minutes:
Dates: Carbon 14 and other radiometric dating (debate order: 12) See reference: RADIOMETRIC TIME SCALE (USGS). Fossils. Integrity of science.
YouTube Video 8:42 minutes:
Thermodynamics: is creationists' use of the 2nd law valid? (debate order: 13) See reference: 2nd law prohibits evolution. Creation science versus conventional science. Evolution observation. Hovind: "ludicrous!"
YouTube Video 10:00 minutes:
End of debate (debate order: 14) Contains closing statements plus brief post-debate remarks by Hovind and Callahan

Enjoy the debate.

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